Many Republicans started a stink about the whole deal - then Harry Reid(not my favorite politician to start with) and his cowardly gang of followers(most of the Democrats) joined in. So just what is the big problem with this?! These people didn't exactly escape Guantanamo into Cuba and they aren't gonna escape from confided cells within supermax prisons into America either.
There is all this talk about "releasing" terror suspects her - exactly who the hell proposed such a thing?! That is probably one of the most retarded arguments being made and yet it seems to be a popular one.
Ramzi Ahmed Yousef
Omar Abdel-Rahman
Wadih el-Hage
Richard Colvin Reid
Mahmud Abouhalima
Jose Padilla
Mohammed A. Salameh
Zacarias Moussaoui
These are all terrorist that ARE ALREADY IMPRISONED HERE!! I see no problem with this. I probably missed some of them. They're in SUPERMAX prisons - they can't escape and they can't hurt us. Show me ONE example of anyone who EVER escaped a supermax prison. Don't waste your Google search...
One proposed location(which is drawing heat) is the
United States Disciplinary Barracks located ON
Fort Leavenworth. If a maximum security prison located in the middle of a few thousand Army soldiers isn't safe enough... then safe just isn't happening. Someone tell me what's so terrible about that?
During WW2 we had over 400,000 enemy soldiers held right here in the USA - not all with the best of security. Now everyone is like "Don't bring terrorists TO MY STATE" (again as if they are gonna release them... please). You'd think they where planning a nuclear waste dump in your back yard or something. Just when did the US turn into such a nation of absolute pussies?
This is a classic example of capitalizing on irrational fear for political points. People are more worried about re-election than doing what's best. Best of all - I'd bet money it works.
The legislation being that all funding for closing Guantanamo is denied without plans to ship(NOT RELEASE) those prisoners to other countries - which assuming that other countries would actually WANT them(short of being bribed by our tax dollars), I think it sends a clear message - we
apparently can't trust our soldiers to detain these people (at least enough to have them on US soil). At least that is what these morons must think - seriously...
Now some terror suspects HAVE escaped our custody - in nations like Afghanistan with local populations of terrorist sympathetic supporters AND they where broken out by
armed Taliban attacks etc. Wouldn't those prisoners be better secured... HERE?! Exactly...
@!#$ STUPID POLITICIANS!! @!#$
This post brought to you buy a certain degree of alcohol and the anger caused by this brand of stupidity. Please drink responsibly.
I agree, what you're saying makes sense. It's not like we are releasing them into the world and giving them the plans to make a death star. However, that's what people make it out to be.
What I don't get though, is WHY we need to relocate them? It just doesnt make any sense to take them from one supermax prison, to another. It's like the Crocodile hunter... "Oight, we're gonna pick up this croc, and move him ova there!" lol, what's the point?
Agreed 500%. But, I guarantee there will be people here who don't, for whatever reason...cough...Rush...cough...
The Senate now possibly choosing NOT to fund the closing is just further proof the legislature has no backbone. Apparently keeping a prison open is cheaper than not?!?
ThatGuy85 wrote:What I don't get though, is WHY we need to relocate them? It just doesnt make any sense to take them from one supermax prison, to another. It's like the Crocodile hunter... "Oight, we're gonna pick up this croc, and move him ova there!" lol, what's the point?
Geneva Conventions, a fuzzy line. People will say "they weren't uniformed soldiers", but I doubt the American militia was either during the Revolutionary War, soo...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Yeah, but you don't need a uniform to be an organized group of soldiers to kill Americans. Perhaps the Geneva Convention needs to be revised...
OHV notec wrote:Agreed 500%. But, I guarantee there will be people here who don't, for whatever reason...cough...Rush...cough...
The Senate now possibly choosing NOT to fund the closing is just further proof the legislature has no backbone. Apparently keeping a prison open is cheaper than not?!?
Oh the senate isn't afraid to stand - they just are afraid to stand for what's right. These people know how this kinda thing is gonna be misrepresented during election season - exactly the way its being misrepresented today.
Politicians all more worried about reelection over what's right. All politicians can be replaced - ESPECIALLY the ones who don't put the greater good first.
ThatGuy85 wrote:What I don't get though, is WHY we need to relocate them? It just doesnt make any sense to take them from one supermax prison, to another. It's like the Crocodile hunter... "Oight, we're gonna pick up this croc, and move him ova there!" lol, what's the point?
Guantanamo is a legal black hole and we don't need such a thing. I guess the thinking of closing it over reform being that it won't reform because its harder to keep an eye on. There have been stories of soldiers stepping up blatant abuse on the news that the place is closing. I wonder but I can maybe see that POV - plus I also can't see it being cheaper to run an offshore installation like that - we'd have to ship/fly them every food/supply item they need. I can't see Cuba choosing to supplying our base.
The value of not having these guys in the US(except for those that already are LOL) is purely symbolic. Somehow people seem to think its safer or something but there is no factual basis for this that I have seen. I was hoping someone could give me a good argument on this - maybe I already shot down all points?
Useless Turd Sandwich wrote:REID: I’m saying that the United States Senate, Democrats and Republicans, do not want terrorists to be released in the United States. That’s very clear.
QUESTION: No one’s talking about releasing them. We’re talking about putting them in prison somewhere in the United States.
REID: Can’t put them in prison unless you release them.
QUESTION: Sir, are you going to clarify that a little bit? …
REID: I can’t make it any more clear than the statement I have given to you. We will never allow terrorists to be released in the United States
So how did this guy get past the 3rd grade again? What... US Senate Majority leader?! No way! Really?
I never particularity cared for him, I knew he was a worthless a$$hole but I had no idea he was THAT dumb too.
I thought I hated Pelosi more... I wonder now.
Right on. We seriously need to vote these son of a bishes out of office regardless of party!!
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I say we water board em!
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Kill them, that would be cheapest and they couldn't convert anyone and we could shut down Guantanamo!! I doubt they like their lives anyway.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good. 
LOL
Quiklilcav wrote:I don't know why I didn't respond to this before, but it's simple: it's got nothing to do with the risk of them escaping. They convert other prisoners to the muslim faith and recruit them for Jihad.
Ironically, the day before bk3k started this thread, 4 home-grown terrorists were arrested in an FBI sting operation trying to blow up a Synagogue in NY. These terrorists were muslim converts while in US prisons.
That is why we don't want them anywhere but Gitmo.
I recall reading about them as well. Convicts converting to Islam happens in regular prisons every day - the proof is in the very example you gave. All this happens with those terrorists safely tucked away in Gitmo.
I'd say the additional risk - if any at all - is minimal at best. I highly doubt this class of prisoner would be allowed to interact with standard inmates, let alone be allowed to indoctrinate them. In fact, why would we use a standard prison at all? The example I gave of the
United States Disciplinary Barracks is a perfect example of where we can safely warehouse them without fear of such a thing. In fact, once that is taken care of then we may want to also move other dangerous inmates - such as the currently incarsorated terrorists I mentioned - there as well. Having one central detention facility for these types was never a bad idea - it just doesn't need to be Guantanamo Bay.
It would appear that
some other people think Guantanamo needs to go -
Quote:
RFE/RL: As you know, General, the debate over Guantanamo and enhanced interrogation techniques has become "Topic A" in Washington. In your view, does the closing of "Gitmo" and the abandonment of those techniques complicate the U.S. mission in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in the overall struggle against violent transnational extremist groups or does it help it?
Petraeus: I think, on balance, that those moves help it. In fact, I have long been on record as having testified and also in helping write doctrine for interrogation techniques that are completely in line with the Geneva Convention. And as a division commander in Iraq in the early days, we put out guidance very early on to make sure that our soldiers, in fact, knew that we needed to stay within those guidelines.
With respect to Guantanamo, I think that the closure in a responsible manner, obviously one that is certainly being worked out now by the Department of Justice -- I talked to the attorney general the other day [and] they have a very intensive effort ongoing to determine, indeed, what to do with the detainees who are left, how to deal with them in a legal way, and if continued incarceration is necessary -- again, how to take that forward.
But doing that in a responsible manner, I think, sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees.
But then again, what does the largely successful General David Petraeus (Commander of the US Central Command) know anyways....
The US never signed the convention....
I would feed them pig's... and then shoot them..
AFTER ALL, THEY WERE TRYING\DID KILL US...
But no one cares about that.... that's why we need to 'respect' there FEELINGS?!
Its war!
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Yeah, my great grandfather was a prisoner of war in WW2. He survived, so did thousands of other soldiers that were captured. You think it would have been okay to just kill them all? I mean, we were trying to kill them, right?
Different times.. fighting a Christian nation,
FIGHTING A UNIFORMED COMBATANT...
Ya know.... Geneva convention and all does state something like that.....
If he is still alive, ask him what his take on the Terrorist prisoners are.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Different times.. fighting a Christian nation,
Interesting that you should make that statement all while advocating that we act completely contrary to how all Christians are called to behave. I think the supreme irony of this may be lost on you. Perhaps this passage may help.
Luke 9 wrote:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
Before you off saying what Christians should do -
you might want to do some READING first.
ThatGuy85 wrote:Yeah, my great grandfather was a prisoner of war in WW2. He survived, so did thousands of other soldiers that were captured. You think it would have been okay to just kill them all? I mean, we were trying to kill them, right?
you dont think allot were killed while in captivity? look at vietnam. how many of our soilders were killed. im not saying its just right to outright shoot them all. but to assume that it doesnt happen on the other side is very near sighted.
as for gitmo it seems the only reason they want it closed is because some captivies were "tortured" while most just got laughed at and mentally @!#$ with, its like some children were murdered there so they need to close it down and make it some great shrine to the opposition. if you want to shut it down. shut it down because its old. shut it down because the cost of running it is to high, but dont shut it down because of this. this is just knee jerk reaction and all the goverment trying to play the outraged role when most of them probalby new exactly what was going on. but now that the @!#$ hit the fan they are outraged and want it closed down. its just stupid.
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bk3k wrote:Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Different times.. fighting a Christian nation,
Interesting that you should make that statement all while advocating that we act completely contrary to how all Christians are called to behave. I think the supreme irony of this may be lost on you. Perhaps this passage may help.
No, we were FIGHTING a christian nation.
just like the VC, they are not..... see how things went down differently?
One could almost say, we are treating them BETTER THEN THEY TREAT US........ not that I wouldn't want to behead some and drag them through the streets for kids to spit on......
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:
One could almost say, we are treating them BETTER THEN THEY TREAT US........ not that I wouldn't want to behead some and drag them through the streets for kids to spit on.....
Yes we do - as it should be. This is how real Christians do things - no matter if the other side is Christian or not and no matter what they do.- we do not compromise ourselves. The Bible makes this abundantly clear.
Look at early Christian history - the official religion of the Roman Empire was a Pagan religion - a very hostile one to Christianity in particular. Christians where killed just for being Christian(much as these extremists would do today). We did not strike back at them, nor show them hatred - we did not compromise on our values. They sought only to save the souls of those who only wanted to kill them. Mercy in the face of blind hostility, commitment to your values - these things leave a strong impression even upon your enemies. Eventually all the Roman Empire became a Christian empire. The rest is history.
Now for some more history - I can't say that Christians during the middle ages kept their values quite so well. Take the Crusades - we killed Muslims just for being Muslims and we killed all in sight. We tried to spread Christianity back to the holy land by way of the sword. Christianity is love and you do not spread love at the tip of a sword. We left a very different impression this time around - and that continues today.
It's not hard to see which path you support. Its not hard to see the outcome either.
This is America - and we DO treat our enemies better than they treat us... BECAUSE WE ARE BETTER.
Ronald Reagan wrote:The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas-a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.
If you don't keep to your values when they are tested - they really are not your values at all. How can America be "shining city on a hill" as Reagan put it - if we compromise ourselves to fight others who do not share our values?
Well then I guess waterboarding is better then what they do to us....
No I really wouldn't want to do what I have said....
But If we are (the military) going to get bashed for doing really bad @!#$, hell, atleast lets earn it!
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Relative to the original topic -
Top U.S. military officer pushes Guantanamo closing
Quote:
Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, rallied behind President Barack Obama's move to close the detention facility at the U.S. naval base in Cuba, which is operated by the U.S. military.
"Well, the concern I've had about Guantanamo in these wars is it has been a symbol -- and one which has been a recruiting symbol for those extremists and jihadists who would fight us. ... That's at the heart of the concern for Guantanamo's continued existence," Mullen said on ABC's "This Week."
Between him and General David Petraeus whom I quoted earlier - don't expect much resistance from Military higher ups to this move. Its no secret that our legislators only trust the Military consensus when it agrees with them - but they need to face reality. This move should happen and it will happen. But in the end, its all just another political calculation to these guys.
closing down gitmo won't change terroritst feelings, nor will they believe were not torturing people just because we closed it down. they will just say they did that to make everyone think they stopped but they just take our people to another jail to torture. it will change nothing and solve nothing. its just political posturing for the people.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
I'm starting to think the brass is just afraid to speak out agent great leader.
I have never meet a single Officer that though we where messing up getmo.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Quiklilcav wrote:I don't know why I didn't respond to this before, but it's simple: it's got nothing to do with the risk of them escaping. They convert other prisoners to the muslim faith and recruit them for Jihad.
Ironically, the day before bk3k started this thread, 4 home-grown terrorists were arrested in an FBI sting operation trying to blow up a Synagogue in NY. These terrorists were muslim converts while in US prisons.
That is why we don't want them anywhere but Gitmo.
I know terrorists will use telepathy to convert cell mates to the evil muslim faith through several layers of concrete walls, nothing but an ocean can prevent the spread the of their evil except for maybe tin foil hats to block their jihadmavision ! The technology has not yet been invented to hold terrorists safely, they have always found a way to escape whether mentally through telepathy or actual departiclization. WE ARE DEALING WITH AN ENEMY WHICH CANNOT BE STOPPED!!!!!
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Gen. Pershing did it in the early 1900's....
All they understand is death....
Chris.
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
